Friday, March 26, 2010

I won, but I still feel like a loser it felt fucking good.

Last night I did something I said I'd never do...

I argued in the comment section on youtube.

Over the course of two hours, I issued challenges, retorted, and may have done the unthinkable...

I may have changed some minds.

After a few knowledgeable counters, most of the idiots shut up, and I was left with the CNN watchers, the supposedly informed ones.

One argued in circles until I tripped her on her own logic. She was happy for the mandate because her own grandma was in the "to rich for assistance, too poor to pay for it" section, which is silly because the bill is full of three-sizes-fit-all solutions, and there are plenty of cracks to fall through.

I goaded one with a Nazi/socialist reminder, and was challenged by another with a surprisingly civil, and well toned argument that specifics of the nazi-style socialism was actually less socialist, and more conservative. I argued back that there are many nuanced types of -isms, and that my parallel was rooted in the big government belief of the Nazi's style of socialism, which is the opposite of the small government belief of modern American conservatism. The labels may change, but it's still a powerful, intrusive, big government with the power to do terrible things. He agreed I had a point (!) and thanked me for my civil tone.

I replied to a comment that the Republicans had nothing to add to the debate, and talked about tort reform, selling across state lines, and giving the tax breaks businesses get for insurance to individuals. All these ideas were presented for months leading up to the bill, while Obama called for ideas and bipartisanship. None made it into the bill. He commented that I had him reading the bill now (!), and agreed that those were good ideas, but thought it might be too confusing for people to grasp. I told him that we had to agree to disagree at this point, because I trust people to make the right decisions for themselves and to learn from their mistakes when they screw up, while other people believe that people are stupid and need someone who says they're really smart to make three-sizes-fit-all solutions that apply to everyone. He agreed that most middle class people knew how to shop around, and spend their money, but agreed that we disagreed. We chatted informally about the credit market after that.

Short argument about how this bill doesn't change how healthcare is delivered, only that it promises it to everyone. That was a short argument. He shut up quickly.

One responded to another argument I had made that the bill couldn't tell insurance companies how to run, and after a bit of arguing, he replied that he was looking for my claims in the bill, and would tell me why they were wrong. I told him I'd be waiting. No reply since yesterday.

One self-righteous commenter said there was no minimumm level of care requirement, and people with simple catastrophic coverage could keep it. He smugly asked me to provide proof of my claim. I was frustrated at the time, and asked him simply, "Are you, or are you not aware there is a minimum level of coverage imposed on everyone?" He told me I was answering questions with questions, and was deflecting. To which I replied,
Oh jesus. You told me I have to back up my statements with facts, I asked you if you were aware that there was minimum requirement for health coverage in the bill. You might as well have asked me to prove the sky was blue. If you were even remotely educated about the facts of this debate, you'd know that Obama fought for a minimum requirement specifically. You don't know jack, and asking me to look it up for you proves it.

He continued haranguing me as I half-ignored half-researched. I couldn't find the page that referenced the minimum level of care because it wasn't called "minimum level of care." Just when I was about to give up, I found a good site that referenced the specific pages and sections of the bill. I returned to the comments, which had gained some steam as they ganged up on me for apparently retreating from the challenge, and I posted the page number, section number, section title, and letter of the requirements, and listed a few with the obvious implications.

Then it was quiet.

I had been at it, off and on, for two hours, and during that time the arguments and bickering kept a pretty healthy pace. But now... Nothing.

I waited a few minutes, and since it was still quiet, I posted my last comment for the night.
Gee, it got awful fucking quiet in here. Kind of hard to argue with the bill itself, eh?

Fucking read it you useful idiots. It has all kinds of nasty shit that you'd freak out about if Bush did it. News flash, power switches back and forth in America, and eventually a Republican will be able to tell you what to buy, and how to buy it, or they'll throw you in jail.

See you guys in November.

To quote Larry Elder, "A fact to a toe-tag liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman."

For two hours, I shat all over the high-fiving Obamaphiles with logic and facts. I unhinged faulty logic, pointed and laughed when arguments were countered with namecalling, and smashed every doe-eyed fantasy these twits had about the healthcare bill.

I don't care if it was in the comment section of youtube.

It felt fucking good.

Hey, it DID feel good. I'm changing the title of this post.


Pop N Fresh said...

Use truth as your anvil, nonviolence as your hammer and anything that does not stand the test when it is brought to the anvil of truth and hammered with nonviolence, reject it.
-Mohandas Gandhi

Anonymous said...

Got a link to the thread?

ErnestThing said...

I actually tried to go back to find some of the comments, and apparently, youtube shits all over itself in tracking individual comment progression and reply-based conversations. I found comments I posted within minutes of eachother several pages apart.

But if you're still willing to try to make sense of it, send me an e-mail, and I'll send you the link. Sadly, most of the impact is lost in the confusing progression.

Anonymous said...

I'll take your word for it that it was an epic smackdown. Bummer that YouTube can't keep that shit straight. It would however explain the seemingly random and disconnected comment arguments I read on occasion.